Pre-removal donation notification
- Thread starter Mitt78
- Start date
I have 1/3rd more shocks than you do so it's a non issue for me anymore
but for the amount of roll the swaybar "helped" negate is negligible once my first lift was put on. I still have a little body roll but it's not scary like some lifted trucks I've been in.
Last edited:
Everyone here is in the same boat. One of the main reasons why I want to get a hardshell RTT in the future.
CowboyTaco
Well-Known Member
I'll defend that with you. @tex and I took the swaybar off my Tacoma when we installed the Ironman lift. I drove it for about 3 days before deciding it was some scary shit in turns. Front end felt like it skipped and bounce around a turn that I take everyday leaving work. Swaybar went back on and I haven't had a problem since.
Silverback
Lima Gulf Bravo Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
I drive my truck 99.999 of the time. I drove the wifes car about 2 months ago for about a week. Got back into the truck and the first corner about killed me. Oh yeah... you don't like those. Brakes like shit.. corners like shit (compared to the other ride). Slow we go.
Silverback
Lima Gulf Bravo Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
My 81 yota handles 2x as good as the Taco. She stops on a dime, provided it isn't wet out, corners damn good.. I call it my sport truck. If I ever got my ass around to fixing the AC in it I would drive the wheels off it.
CowboyTaco
Well-Known Member
Fix up the 81. You'll turn more heads than you do in the Tacoma
italynstylion
Well-Known Member
I actually wrote a fairly long post on how the sway bar works and how, in spite of how simple it is, impressive it does its job. Copied and pasted from Tacomaworld. Thought this might be relevant to y'all. It's not an ultra dangerous thing to leave the sway bar off as long as you drive like you know it's not there. It's certainly true, however, that emergency lane changes and such could be the death of you. That being said, the handling and MANNERS of the truck are what is compromised during daily use.
1) On a road, the truck performs WORSE without the sway bar. This is a factual statement; no opinion.
2) Stiffer springs will minimally help combat the degraded performance.
3) If having a poorly handling truck is acceptable to you, that's your decision entirely. There are other STOCK vehicles that will tip over well before your no-swaybar modified Tacoma.
Springs are rated by the amount of force that is required to get them to compress by 1 inch. The stock spring rates on a Tacoma are 560 I believe. The silver Eibach springs are about 650; so 90lbs of extra load is required to compress the spring 1". Say we're taking a right turn, that 1" of compression will translate into a certain amount of roll angle as the driver's side wheel moves up an inch and the body rolls that direction. With stock springs, it requires 560 pounds of force to accomplish this. With the stiffer aftermarket springs, it requires an additional 90lbs. So as many are saying, this compensates for NOT having a sway bar....or does it? Keep in mind, while this is happening, the inside wheel and suspension are actually pushing UP on the vehicle, actively trying to flip it over.
Let's check the math. But before we do, does everyone actually understand how a sway bar works? A sway bar connects the left and right suspensions by way of a thick steel bar. As the suspension on one side of the truck moves up, it also causes the suspension on the other side of the truck to do the same which lowers the vehicle. Factually speaking, the two sides are linked together. Yes, the sway bar will exhibit SOME flex but if you've ever held the massive sway bar in your hands you'll have an appreciation for how stiff that bar is.
Moving onto our calculations....remember we stated a Tacoma with Eibach springs will take 90 extra lbs to get the truck to roll to the same degree as a stock spring truck with no sway bar. Now let's put the sway bar back on the stock spring Tacoma. Since the left and right suspension springs are now linked via a mechanical bar, the spring rate just doubled on the outside wheel, the one being compressed. This is because the weight is being taken off the inside wheel as the truck rolls out. So now our effective spring rate on the outside wheel is 1120lbs per inch. This of course ignores the minimal flex we'll get from the sway bar twisting under force (because I have NO idea how we'd figure that out). So the stock Tacoma with the sway bar requires an EXTRA 470lbs of force to get it to tip the same angle under turning than even the upgraded Eibach spring Tacoma. That's an extra 42% spring rate (I think that's correct) over the Eibachs that were supposed to be an "upgrade".
So what does that mean? Well the math says you're WAY better off with stock suspension and a sway bar. By a HUGE HUGE margin. The best part is the magic and witch craft of what a sway bar means for your daily comfort when NOT turning. If you are getting your stiffer spring rate via inherently stiffer springs, your ride will be way rougher as you travel straight on the road since your OVERALL spring rate is much higher. But having the sway bar allows you to run a much softer spring rate for driving comfort that only presents itself as a stiff spring when in the corners. Clear as mud?
1) On a road, the truck performs WORSE without the sway bar. This is a factual statement; no opinion.
2) Stiffer springs will minimally help combat the degraded performance.
3) If having a poorly handling truck is acceptable to you, that's your decision entirely. There are other STOCK vehicles that will tip over well before your no-swaybar modified Tacoma.
Springs are rated by the amount of force that is required to get them to compress by 1 inch. The stock spring rates on a Tacoma are 560 I believe. The silver Eibach springs are about 650; so 90lbs of extra load is required to compress the spring 1". Say we're taking a right turn, that 1" of compression will translate into a certain amount of roll angle as the driver's side wheel moves up an inch and the body rolls that direction. With stock springs, it requires 560 pounds of force to accomplish this. With the stiffer aftermarket springs, it requires an additional 90lbs. So as many are saying, this compensates for NOT having a sway bar....or does it? Keep in mind, while this is happening, the inside wheel and suspension are actually pushing UP on the vehicle, actively trying to flip it over.
Let's check the math. But before we do, does everyone actually understand how a sway bar works? A sway bar connects the left and right suspensions by way of a thick steel bar. As the suspension on one side of the truck moves up, it also causes the suspension on the other side of the truck to do the same which lowers the vehicle. Factually speaking, the two sides are linked together. Yes, the sway bar will exhibit SOME flex but if you've ever held the massive sway bar in your hands you'll have an appreciation for how stiff that bar is.
Moving onto our calculations....remember we stated a Tacoma with Eibach springs will take 90 extra lbs to get the truck to roll to the same degree as a stock spring truck with no sway bar. Now let's put the sway bar back on the stock spring Tacoma. Since the left and right suspension springs are now linked via a mechanical bar, the spring rate just doubled on the outside wheel, the one being compressed. This is because the weight is being taken off the inside wheel as the truck rolls out. So now our effective spring rate on the outside wheel is 1120lbs per inch. This of course ignores the minimal flex we'll get from the sway bar twisting under force (because I have NO idea how we'd figure that out). So the stock Tacoma with the sway bar requires an EXTRA 470lbs of force to get it to tip the same angle under turning than even the upgraded Eibach spring Tacoma. That's an extra 42% spring rate (I think that's correct) over the Eibachs that were supposed to be an "upgrade".
So what does that mean? Well the math says you're WAY better off with stock suspension and a sway bar. By a HUGE HUGE margin. The best part is the magic and witch craft of what a sway bar means for your daily comfort when NOT turning. If you are getting your stiffer spring rate via inherently stiffer springs, your ride will be way rougher as you travel straight on the road since your OVERALL spring rate is much higher. But having the sway bar allows you to run a much softer spring rate for driving comfort that only presents itself as a stiff spring when in the corners. Clear as mud?
Same with my wife's car. I feel like I'm driving a go-cart...and drive it like one
You have 17" rims right? You seriously need to do the 4Runner brake upgrade. My truck stops like it did when it was stock. Hell, it saved my ass the other day in traffic when I had to light them up to keep from going into the back of a Ferd.
Look on the first post on my build page for part #'s.
The amount of sway that you're willing to handle is up to the driver. I used to drive old clapped out Chevy's and Fords for work and just got used to how badly those handled on the roads... to the point that when I would get back in my Tacoma after a long day on the road, I would swear to you that the truck handled and drove like an X5M!
If you can handle or don't feel the amount of sway is discomforting, then leave the sway bar off. If it bothers you and makes you feel unsafe then put the sway bar back on.
With that being said, will I ever wheel offroad with the sway bar on again? The answer to that is Hell No!
Oswego
n00b
This will be my downfall ~ Swapping from my Subaru to the Tacoma. I can't even remember when I took the sway bar off, but I can tell you it was for the majority of the 94k I put on the truck and never had an issue driving with the a-holes up here in the NE.
I'm more worried about the overactive ABS than my driving skills without a sway bar because the ABS is an unknown. I "should" know how my truck drives so long as I remember when swapping vehicles and getting used to it again after 3+ years off.
Silverback
Lima Gulf Bravo Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
Same with my wife's car. I feel like I'm driving a go-cart...and drive it like one
You have 17" rims right? You seriously need to do the 4Runner brake upgrade. My truck stops like it did when it was stock. Hell, it saved my ass the other day in traffic when I had to light them up to keep from going into the back of a Ferd.
Look on the first post on my build page for part #'s.
Next time I do brakes I'll do it.
CowboyTaco
Well-Known Member
@Anathollo , I see the part numbers in your build, but do you have a write-up you can point me to? You have piqued my interest.
CowboyTaco
Well-Known Member
Oh, you mean just for the front? COMPLETED 5th Gen 4Runner BBK upgrade for 2nd Gen Tacomas
For some reason, I read "change out the rear drums for 4Runner rotors"
I may do this the next time I do brakes, but I only have like 10k on the current setup.
For some reason, I read "change out the rear drums for 4Runner rotors"
I may do this the next time I do brakes, but I only have like 10k on the current setup.
italynstylion
Well-Known Member
I need to do this too. Mine doesn't like to stop anymore haha.
You have to have 17" rims to clear the calipers FYI. I can't remember what rims you have.
Yeah I wish someone would do a writeup on that so I could swap my drum brakes out. I had around ~15k or less miles on mine when one of my brake calipers started seizing and I needed to replace it.
This brake job is easy to do. Just make sure you get the OEM rotors instead of those slotted, drilled, "racing" brake rotors that don't work well or last long for daily driving.
I have tried a bunch of different brake combinations and the OEM rotos + EBC Greenstuff pads have worked the best for me. The OEM rotors are also much thicker than the aftermarket rotors and last longer IMHO.
Last edited:
CowboyTaco
Well-Known Member
I believe we both have the TRD Sport 17" rims
italynstylion
Well-Known Member
Yep, I have the TRD Sport rims too. I'll probably message you at some point to get the low down on what to get. Braking is really an issue at this point.