Tacoma drive shaft vibrations.....at my wits end
- Thread starter italynstylion
- Start date
PSU Taco85
Well-Known Member
I've been running a 1 piece double cardan rear driveshaft for 4+ years with no issue. I start with a rear shaft from a 3rd gen 4runner or a front driveshaft from an IFS 4runner/pickup (86-89) and modify to suit the length you need. Measure from pinion flange to pinion flange with the truck at rest.
slip joint goes in the back by the pinion
I keep the shitty 2 piece DS with the carrier bearing for a spare.
slip joint goes in the back by the pinion
I keep the shitty 2 piece DS with the carrier bearing for a spare.
italynstylion
Well-Known Member
@PSU Taco85 I had one like that from Tom Woods. Worked great till I regeared. I think it's simply too long with the 4.56 gears.
I have a local shop welding in a 1310 double cardan joint behind my OEM carrier bearing just like the one I posted on the last page. I specifically asked my guy if he had to use a smaller diameter shaft or spine segment to make it work and he said no, he wouldn't need to change any of those things. It should be noted that he's modifying the OEM shaft and not starting from scratch (which is what I really wanted) so I SHOULD end up with a full strength shaft with a 1310 double cardan joint. It should be done tomorrow or Friday. Waiting on pins and needles here. Stay tuned.
I have a local shop welding in a 1310 double cardan joint behind my OEM carrier bearing just like the one I posted on the last page. I specifically asked my guy if he had to use a smaller diameter shaft or spine segment to make it work and he said no, he wouldn't need to change any of those things. It should be noted that he's modifying the OEM shaft and not starting from scratch (which is what I really wanted) so I SHOULD end up with a full strength shaft with a 1310 double cardan joint. It should be done tomorrow or Friday. Waiting on pins and needles here. Stay tuned.
tex
That's Mr Asshole to you
And to think. This all started with gaining a little more clearance with taller tires. $5k later for a regear and dual lockers and now more money for a driveshaft. The rabbit hole has got real deep.
Thank you for reminding me why I am staying with my stock tire size.
PSU Taco85
Well-Known Member
That's strange, I have 4.56s and never had a problem. The OEM joints from toyota are definitely the strongest. If you read the dana/spicer manual it will tell you how fast you can spin the driveshaft without causing problems. I've had my truck up to 80 mph at least and the thing has never flown apart
Oh yeah, mess with one thing and you end up re-doing the whole damn truck. Mine is finally "happy" in it's current state so I'm done messing with it for the time being haha. The 4runner will be the next victim as well as my wallet.
italynstylion
Well-Known Member
I think it's mainly due to a shitty design and/or not being installed correctly from the factory. When I drove my brand new Tacoma off the lot, I remember turning right and feeling slight vibes. I didn't know any better at the time that it would be a reoccurring issue for me in the future.
Silverback
Lima Gulf Bravo Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
Yeah, I had driveline shudders when the truck was brand new. I replaced it with a TW shaft before I even lifted it.
thekidcatcher
Well-Known Member
Same, TW and 4.56s
@italynstylion any update?
xJuice
Well-Known Member
You guys have any angled axle shims?
italynstylion
Well-Known Member
I had a new shaft made (two piece, double cardan behind the CB) and I think it might be a winner. Little vibrations on the highway around 50mph but I believe a CB spacer will fix that. It's only in an isolated speed range. Take off vibes are gone. I'm out of town for the week (work training) so I can't mess with it till I get home.
Silverback
Lima Gulf Bravo Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
So.. $64 question... how much was the new shaft?
PSU Taco85
Well-Known Member
I pointed the axle at the t-case using shims yes. If I ever get around to it I'll cut the stock perches off and weld them on at the correct angle.
Silverback
Lima Gulf Bravo Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
Yes, I have shims as well.
italynstylion
Well-Known Member
Roughly $520 I believe. Just a little more than the Tom Woods drive shaft (which I returned) so it will come out about even for me if this works.
Silverback
Lima Gulf Bravo Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
That's not bad! I was spending $400+ to rebuild my TW shafts.
italynstylion
Well-Known Member
After a really long business trip (and some other finagling) I can finally update this post as I've finally made it to the vibration free promised land. Yes, 100% vibration free. Here's what's transpired after my first post in this thread.
Originally, I'd bought the single piece 3.5" diameter drive shaft from Tom Woods. When I was on stock gearing, it was heaven. However, when you re-gear to a more aggressive gear ratio (4.56 for me) your drive shaft will be expected to spin VERY fast. Faster than what's called the "critical speed" of the shaft which is defined as the max safe operating speed of the shaft. For me, I wasn't able to go any faster than 55mph without horrible vibrations. Just to be clear, this shaft and operating angles worked prior to gears. Another member on here who also has 4.56 gears used a 4" diameter single piece shaft and said he doesn't have any vibrations even at high speed. I can't comment on his experiences since I don't know his setup.
However, for me, the best solution for a large number of reasons was a custom version of the OEM shaft. Since the shaft utilizes an OEM carrier bearing, it has a MUCH higher critical speed RPM than a long single piece shaft. It also offers better ground clearance. The shaft I had made is very similar to the one @1MK tried once upon a time. The custom shaft uses the OEM shaft at its core but deletes the u-joint sitting directly behind the OEM carrier bearing in-lieu of a double cardan input joint. A double cardan joint is often referred to as a CV joint although it's not a true CV joint. Regardless, it serves a very important purpose in this case. A double cardan joint will tolerate an angle that's double what a single u-joint will allow. So for lifted vehicles with angles you'll pretty much never fix; it's a HUGE help. This is also what makes the single piece shaft solution from Tom Woods work so well.
I want to be very clear on WHY this fixes start off vibrations. It fixes it because the pinion angle changes SEVERELY under hard acceleration. Thus, the u-joints get out of their operating range and you get some bad shit happening where the drive shaft tries to escape the carrier bearing. This is likely what's causing so many of you to go through carrier bearings like crazy. I suspect that leaf pack selection and lift height have the most to do with this.
So to summarize, the double cardan joint placed after the carrier bearing is needed because it tolerates the change in pinion angle due to axle wrap. The two piece drive shaft, using a carrier bearing, allows you to have aggressive gearing and not have vibrations at highway speeds.
As of now, my setup is as follows...
Originally, I'd bought the single piece 3.5" diameter drive shaft from Tom Woods. When I was on stock gearing, it was heaven. However, when you re-gear to a more aggressive gear ratio (4.56 for me) your drive shaft will be expected to spin VERY fast. Faster than what's called the "critical speed" of the shaft which is defined as the max safe operating speed of the shaft. For me, I wasn't able to go any faster than 55mph without horrible vibrations. Just to be clear, this shaft and operating angles worked prior to gears. Another member on here who also has 4.56 gears used a 4" diameter single piece shaft and said he doesn't have any vibrations even at high speed. I can't comment on his experiences since I don't know his setup.
However, for me, the best solution for a large number of reasons was a custom version of the OEM shaft. Since the shaft utilizes an OEM carrier bearing, it has a MUCH higher critical speed RPM than a long single piece shaft. It also offers better ground clearance. The shaft I had made is very similar to the one @1MK tried once upon a time. The custom shaft uses the OEM shaft at its core but deletes the u-joint sitting directly behind the OEM carrier bearing in-lieu of a double cardan input joint. A double cardan joint is often referred to as a CV joint although it's not a true CV joint. Regardless, it serves a very important purpose in this case. A double cardan joint will tolerate an angle that's double what a single u-joint will allow. So for lifted vehicles with angles you'll pretty much never fix; it's a HUGE help. This is also what makes the single piece shaft solution from Tom Woods work so well.
I want to be very clear on WHY this fixes start off vibrations. It fixes it because the pinion angle changes SEVERELY under hard acceleration. Thus, the u-joints get out of their operating range and you get some bad shit happening where the drive shaft tries to escape the carrier bearing. This is likely what's causing so many of you to go through carrier bearings like crazy. I suspect that leaf pack selection and lift height have the most to do with this.
So to summarize, the double cardan joint placed after the carrier bearing is needed because it tolerates the change in pinion angle due to axle wrap. The two piece drive shaft, using a carrier bearing, allows you to have aggressive gearing and not have vibrations at highway speeds.
As of now, my setup is as follows...
- Icon Stage 4 lift set at 3"
- Dakar Leaf pack
- 3 degree axle shims
- 4.56 gearing
- Two piece drive shaft with double cardan joint.
- OEM carrier bearing with NO spacers.
- BFG KO2 34x10.5x17
Awesome that the whole thing uses the standard u joints. Simple to repair.